WZYT vs SNT for vomiting

Dear all (Laurie), Smile

Wuzhuyu Tang and Sini Tang are both very different formulas, yet they both treat Shaoyin vomiting.  (Lines 309 vs 324)  Both pictures are of Shaoyin sickness, cold limbs, retching due to cold and possibly dampness in the middle.  There seems to be more of an emphasis on SNT for diarrhea (esp clear-food) and more of an emphasis on Wuzhuyu for reflux and heart-shen disturbance.  Both approaches treat pain and vomiting, so my question is, what are the main differentiating factors in deciding between these two approaches to Shaoyin vomiting?

Thanks in advance,


荠 苨: in last line

In the very last line of the Jingui, it says: 

 凡 諸 毒 , 多 是 假 毒 以 投 , 無 知 時 宜 煮 甘 草 薺 苨 汁飲 之 , 通 除 諸 毒 藥 。

 Does anybody know what herb 荠 苨 is? The "Chinese-English Textbook" version calls this Harebell. I've found all sorts of ideas for this online with the most possible results being a) an alternate name for Jiegeng (I guess being that harebell is in the Campanula/bellflower genera) or b) Lobelia (which would lay out the possibility of an emetic, making quite a bit of sense) .

 Any ideas? 

Wuling San mechanism

Dear all,

You've been so helpful in the past, I'll give rubbing the lamp one more shot...

Wuling San (and, by extension, Zhuling Tang) has been a perplexing formula for me.  Its constituents clearly disinhibit waterways (bladder), dry out a boggy earth,  and restore fluid metabolism.  I've learned middle jiao water dysregulation to manifest as thist (inundated spleen unable to raise Taiyin fluids) and lack of thirst (or even a "wet" tongue, as damp fills the mouth).  Both the Bencao jing and Mingyi bielu state that Fuling and Zhuling treat thirst with damp accumulation.  Does anyone ever see a "wet" mouth or tongue with a Wuling San presentation, or is this always a picture of Yangming-Taiyin water dysregulation of the middle leading to poor transportation of fluids (dryness)?  

I'm also trying to figure out how this formula treats Sudden Turmoil disease with vomiting and diarrhea.  The classics clearly show how Lizhong Wan might treat the disease (without thirst), but, again, when there is thirst, how is it that one determines Wuling San to be the key.  I suppose if there's a certain Sudden Turmoil diagnosis, differentiation is simple, but in other sorts of Wuling San patters (post sweat, for example), why isn't a more nourishing formula (Renshen-based) being used?  (It seems to me that a post-sweat formula would focus more on moistening, as in BHjRST, and less on pumping out more water.)  

Finally, why is Ejiao found in Zhuling Tang?

Sorry to be so greedy; there's just so much learning going on!

Thanks again,



Blood Stasis Jaundice

Didang Tang consists of 4 herbs that all break up blood stasis and eliminate accumulations. Very clearly, the line implicates blood stasis as the cause of Didang Tang jaundice.  Modern TCM doctors also acknowledge blood stasis as a cause of jaundice in the body.  My question is, why do people turn yellow when afflicted with blood stasis (at least this type of blood stasis)?  I'm trying my best to link stasis to the earth organs and am having great difficulty.  Is it also true that heat can cause jaundice by itself (in addition to red complexion)?  Help!



Translating Shi Jin 十斤 into grams

Quick one for you all,

In line 66, Houpo Shengjiang Banxia Gancao Renshen Tang is said to contain "shengjiang shijin" (生姜十斤) and Houpo 1/2 jin.  Usually we translate 1 jin as 48 grams (ie Ma Xing Shi Gan Tang containing Shigao 1/2 jin, or 24 grams).  However, the characters here say "10 jin."  I can't believe there are 480 grams of Shengjiang in this formula (with 24 grams of Houpo).  Is this shorthand for another amount? (Source, Wiseman et al)

Thank you!


Reply to self:

After searching, what I imagine to be, less credible online versions of the Shangan lun, I've found other copies list Shengjiang at 1/2 jin in this formula.  Shi 十 and Ban 半are hardly dis-similar.  Is it possible that Wiseman et al's scanner screwed up this character in their Chinese appendix of the SHL?


severe head pains

Some similarities here with your previous case Laurie. This is 45 yo lady with 20 yr history of hemiplegic migraine with numbness. Then 3 yrs ago developed a rare complication (only 15 other people known in the UK with this) given the acronym SUNA ( short lasting unilateral neuralgic headache) which the neurology specialists say is a problem originating in the hypothalmus and ultimately can be sorted with an implant there. Ok back to chinese medicine then!

symptoms: buildup of pressure in the centre of the head, then variable periods of excrutiating pain there which have exact periodicity.... if 1 min of pain then 1 min off then another minute of pain etc. Or the interval may be more... 4 mins of pain then 4 off etc.

This is usually preceded by a hot flushing of the face (even the day before) then when the attack hits, there's drooping of the face (nearly always left hand side) with narrowing of eye (ptosis) and especially tightening of the throat. During attack she blanches completely white and gets very cold hands and feet/legs.

Pulse: lhs cun superficial moderate but doesn't push back, empty under. Guan mid very thin weak (slightly wiry but thin weak makes difficult to be sure) chi deep weak not expiring.

rhs cun unremarkable, guan deep thin, chi weak

thinking of hqgzwwt plus danggui but also considering chgzgjt and not sure about blood stagnation. Thoughts anyone???


chest symptoms after surgery for breast cancer

This lady of 55 had an extremely stressful job, after a very stressful incident was diagnosed with malignant melanoma. Excised, then a biopsy of a breast lump which damaged the breast further...after partial mastectomy more cancerous nodes found leading to total mastectomy followed by chemo and radiotherapy.Now further excisions of melanomas on back.

Currently she has sensation in the whole of the chest area; she describes as inflammation and soreness in 'the flesh' as well as costo chondral soreness and pain in the rib cage generally. She says this sensation pre-dates the diagnosis of cancer. Also when these symptoms are bad she feels a sudden draining of energy (but she emphasises even this energy drain seems to come from the chest.

Sleep is very bad with frequent waking. A bit thirsty, quenched when drinks.

pulse rapid: lhs cun very slippery at mid depth, guan superficial/mid thin wiry unsmooth, chi deep thin not expiring or weak.

rhs cun superficial full/robust sippery and very long (not a dong in my judgement, first time I've seen a pulse like this that extends uniformly from the wrist bone down to the guan) guan mid depth thin wiry and unsmooth, chi deep thin.

My initial choice is to use gualou muli san, I'd also like to use wangbuliuxing san. I realise they have no overlap therefore fall outside the rules of combining, but as the latter is such a specialist formula and the former doesn't seem to me to contradict it's strategy, I'd like to do this.

thoughts anyone? My plan is to try & change the chest & breast discomfort first, the unsmooth pulses currently showing in the guan I guess show a not surprising erosion of yin substance/nutritive. 

patients from august & november 2010

some progress reports

patients from 6.8.10

V, young lady with eczema hands & feet. 

coming to end of phase on yuebitang + mhlqcxdt, now lesions all cleared up. Very good! Hoping to go onto dgsnt but she moving to states soon.

JC ME patient (no 4 that day).

series of strange visual reactions sadly put her off treatment though I reassured her and tried to amend her dosages. Dropped out of treatment.

 SM lady with autoimmune dryness & severe fatigue & joint pains

Her pulse still shows as generally deep weak with rt cun slightly tight and left cun occasionaly over the months floating, then deeper. Still rapid.

Lung scans show fibrosis & scarring. There's no significant change to any symptoms. We keep going with the suggested formula as it still seems appropriate but I don't feel positive about prognosis

patients from 19.11.10

3) AD belgian lady with hoarse throat & joint pains plus tightness.

the speed bump pulse is still there, we got going on recommended formula of gzlgmlt + gzfzt + gzjhqt + lgzgt + bx. Then she had bad bronchitis symptoms which eventually cleared with gua lou formulae but left with worse hoarse throat. Also now she has severe spontaneous copious sweats with no heat through day and night. Also badly fatigued with heaviness.

Latest pulse: lhs deep slippery cun, guan more superficial slippery, chi deep a bit tight

rhs cun mid depth slippery guan superficial slippery chi deep weak 

I'm stuck! apart from the throat maybe being more shaoyin ?? jiegeng symptom, the overall pattern leaves me somewhat bewildered. Sorry if that sounds wimpish but seem to be going round in circles here. Shaoyin surely has to be the base conformation here with taiyin involvement?

 Finally, PB patient 7 lady with migraines & insomnia that was seen as a gcxxt pattern. She has been on that for 2 months and we've agreed a third with little change in symptoms. 

pulse now: lhs cun floating weak, guan deep thin wiry, chi deep very thin

rhs cun cun mildly wiry guan moderate, chi deep weak.

In the past I've tried dgsnt approach without any success. Her migraines are still much better than before treatment with acupuncture but persistent now at approx once a month to six weeks.

Any help with these much appreciated. Thanks 


Portland Canonical Group 2010

Portland Canonical Group 2010

Portland 2011 Canonical Chinese Medicine Training- Jingui Yaolue Sequence

It is decided! ICEAM is offering one more round of the Jingui Yaolue training in Portland, OR. After this offering, the Portland institute is going to take a few years break from offering training sequences.

The dates are as following:

Weekend 1: Jingui Yaolue Diseases, Part One:  Sept. 3-4, 2011

Weekend 2: Jingui Yaolue Diseases, Part Two: Oct. 8-9, 2011

Weekend 3: Jingui Yaolue Pulse Diagnosis: Nov. 12-13, 2011

Weekend 4: Jingui Yaolue Abdominal Diagnosis Fukushin: Dec. 3-4, 2011

Weekend 5: Jingui Yaolue Case Studies: Jan. 7-8, 2011

For registration details, please refer to the attached form.

For program details, please refer to the attached course description.


Portland Canonical Group 2010
2011 Portland JGYL Training_Registration Form.pdf94.75 KB
Canonical Chinese Medicine Training_JGYL Sequence.pdf86.28 KB